February 22, 1998 Chloe: ok everyone ready? mgib: BIG BROTHER, HG:) Magine: yep Chloe: Welcome to the first official meeting of the AWHS!! Chloe: Our agenda is to discuss the preservation of Alpha World. Chloe: Subgenius wrote in part: Chloe: "Except in extreme cases, it should always be a sad occasion when Chloe: something gets deleted, Chloe: because it means we're losing a part of the past. Chloe: We're losing documented 3D history. Chloe: "No one should be in a hurry to delete anything. Chloe: "The object is to save as much of AW as possible,and only get rid of Chloe: "extreme cases. The really obvious offensive crap and stuff that's so badly done no one could Chloe: "that's what we're after." Chloe: Our thoughts are to tag all NAC "not a citizen" properties: Chloe: We would like to see the properties box display the original citizens name, date and citizen #, Chloe: heheh hi grover... Chloe: perhaps in tags example:or in a different color. Chloe: Barring the feasibility of this sincerest wish of ours; grover: hi chloe :) Dthknight: grover, shhh... :) Chloe: the second choice would be a shared building account similar in structure to Chloe: the Teacher account in AWSchool, with the properties box then displaying: Chloe: name: AWHS, citizen #: ?, date: a designation preceding Chloe: the registration deadline...maybe "1995-1997" or "Historical" Chloe: We have been given the priviledge of restoring Ground Zero in AW Prime. Chloe: Some excerpts from letters from JP McCormick: Chloe: "...the vicinity of GZ of Alphaworld out to coordinates 30. As you know Chloe: "there are many unfinished and not fully covered properties that should be preserved, Chloe: "but because of the holes in the ground, people have been able to vandalise them... Chloe: "Many of these buildings need just a few touch up's to finish them in addition to Chloe: "removing the vandalization. Chloe: "There are many Historical buildings in the whole of AW to consider..." Chloe: This is a great opportunity for us to begin the daunting task of our dreams!! Chloe: A committee has been formed to implement this project... Chloe: anyone who has the time and the shared vision of the AWHS's goals of preservation may apply... mgib: clap clap ..woooops Chloe: as we have only a few places in this, our first project, Chloe: everyone may not be included. However, if we show ourselves trustworthy and competent Chloe: the need for more Preservationists will absolutely be needed Chloe: and your application WILL be kept in our archives for future projects. Chloe: We are very excited about the concrete start of this realization of a long held vision!! Chloe: I must say WOOOOO HOOOOOO!!! i'm so excited!!! heheheeh Dthknight: :) mgib: I'm not excited, I keep calm Chloe: Thank you for coming! Any one having questions may line up in front of me Mindman: :D Chloe: :)) Dthknight: Discussion time! :) mgib: yep!!!! a remark Jdal: clap clap clap Carre: clap, clap Mindman: clappers!!!! grover: Q1) what'd i miss? hehe The Paradox: clap ; ) Jdal: er flap flap flap Dows: *drinks a few Jolt Colas, passes out* Dthknight: Chloe: hehe i'll do it again in awhile...for those who want to hear it again Omega: *clap clap clap* grover: *clap* *clap* Magine: clapclap Mindman: Oh yeah, I was thinking.. Chloe: :))) ain't it the best thing ever!!! :))) mgib: *pouring himself a scotch to cheer* grover: that's ok- I'm sure it'll be on the NG or my mailbox soon enuf! Chloe: aww thanks dth :) mgib: May I have a remark?? Dthknight: no the opening speech was the best thing ever... :) Dthknight: Dows: Active Worlds - The Future is Now, but we're trying to bring back the past. Dows: :-) Chloe: me too mgib...i'm shaking heeheh dont' know if it's lack of sleep or excitement :) grover: Q2) SO, how will not-a-citzen be saved? AWHS w/ed manually changes the cit# to a historical account? King Tex: or stage fright Chloe : - ))) Chloe: dows hon...go to the awhs page and read what we're about :) Dthknight: KT turn your PS off now! :) mgib: Mississ Convenor may I have a remark?? Chloe: ok hold on...grover...the nac's will be historical for now...jp and i are negotiating the originals... grover: u go girl! Chloe: he thinks it's possible...but we'll do it later, for now we are making them awhs or historical Chloe: what was q1? The Paradox: Tex, are you getting the log? since you can hear everyone grover: "Q1- what'd i miss?" Mindman: LET MGIB GET HIS REMARK! Chloe: oh hehe ....yes mgib King Tex: I'm getting it ..but dth asked me to turn off PS ...so no guarantees now Chloe: turn it back on tex hon :) The Paradox: ok, well, you got the logger job Tex! : ) King Tex: ok Chloe: yes it is...there will be guidlines about putting roofs on unfinished buildings and filling holes... mgib: there are many way to clean and fix, we should take a picture of the BEFORE so to be able to show the evidence of what we did.... Dthknight: good idea mgib... :) Chloe: everything will be restored as the orig builder intended...no embelishing for creative expression Jdal: yes document EVERYTHING mgib: also this should be done by known ppl at a known time and as a small group... HenrikG: why finish houses? isn't removing obcene signs and patch holes enough? Mindman: May I have a comment? after mgib is done? Jdal: can we assign someone to do the archiving? mgib: so what is done is not what ONE person think is good but at least several like restoring in archeology grover: if I may make a [probably tired] suggestion, will there be a "secret" shared-priveledges account we can use to access any non-citezen? Dthknight: hmm... good idea mgib, I think you and Jdal need to talk... :) Chloe: JP wants the area to look finished...yes pass to nac accts...yes like archeology... mgib: Chloe the orig builder intent is subjective, why it should be a group work Chloe: slow down...one attta time please... Chloe: k noone say anything till i answer,, The Paradox: i'm not so crazy about finishing the work. its kinda nice how it is : ) Chloe: we will work in pairs...that way we will help each other restore...and be covered Dthknight: mgib: For each task the list of ppl working on it must be decided and known Dows: OK, I have a question - so just get to me when everyone's done... Dthknight: then again, I need it to be quiet... :) Mindman: I have a comment.. and other things.. Chloe: i kinda lean that way too P but cof wants the area to be finished to promote aesthectic appearences Chloe: dows? Dows: OK.. Dows: If you all didn't know, I've been away from AW for a long time. Lara: . Mauz: hi Lara :) Dows: But I was just wondering Dows: Will members of AWHS have special privelages over normal citizens? Chloe: no special priveledges...excepting the temporary acct pass to nac in a regulated way Indigoflight3: Hi Chloe I just heard about this meeting just now and bopped over ..:o)))) I don't want to interrupt but please... Can you tell me what its about :o)) I am interested :o))) Dows: K, gotcha... thanks Mindman: --comment-- Chloe: mindman? mgib: and if some trash removal needed ask the PKs?? Mindman: Thanks, personally, I agree with mgib, restoring is going to be difficult. Dthknight: hehe yeah we should be using ! for comments and ?for questions... :) Chloe: yes it's a hard task...time consuming... Chloe: trash will be dealt with by pk's before we start... Mindman: We don't have any blueprints or anything to show the original builder's intent.. Chloe: we won't be building mindman...just finishing...and filling holes.. Jdal: Chloe can you repeat the questions in your answers please Dthknight: Dows stop telegramming me, don't have time to keep switching around like that... Mindman: okay, so there won't be any "lets add some nice flowers here" Chloe: maybe a few trees and flowers Carre: clap, clap Jetta lewis: i was over looking at some of the early non cit buildings and found a lot of it to be amaturish and not very well built grover: cla, clap! mgib: again a picture BEFORE help to judge if the restoration was done with respect to the previous building Ominous: I have a question... Jetta lewis: will that be corrected or leave it badly built Chloe: jdal which question did everyone not hear that i answered? Dows: k, sorry :-) Mindman: wait.. Jdal: well so far all of them for me :) Chloe: jdal wanted to know if the badly built things will be changed...no...only filled in...finished out Mindman: I also think a list of the changes like "moved wall, added flowers" should accompany the picture.. Dthknight: ! Jetta lewis: what is the point in leaving ugly building Chloe: mindman says a list of changes made should appear in the description field...good idea.. Mindman: I'm done :) Jdal: ! Chloe: if we make any chnges...but we're not planning to Chloe: jdal? Dthknight: !! I was first!! :) Chloe: sorry dth Dthknight: hehe just saying I think we should use the ! and ? scheme... grover: [I have a q3, when ready] mgib: yes we are, finishing a roof for example Chloe: good idea...anyone (jdal told me that but i ignored him heheheh)...anyone with a comment say ! and a question ?...who wants to keep up with it and tell me who's next? Jdal: ! Chloe: yes migb you are right... Chloe: i'm not answering tele's it's too hard :(( grover: i can't hear mgib or jdal's commentary/questions Chloe: oh sorry...mgib said even changes like additions should be noted...agreed Jdal: some one with PS needs to keep track of the ! and ? chloe :) Chloe: hmmm ok i'll do it...tex is taking the log King Tex: I'll do it Chloe: next? Jdal: UM might I suggest that a small sign be placed near restored sights.. grover: a lot of the older stuff is within the 80m building restriction around GZ... will that limit be dealt with? King Tex: jdal ! Jdal: restored by AWHS date... and changes made Dthknight: Jdal we won't have space for that... King Tex: Jdal: UM might I suggest that a small sign be placed near restored sights.. Dthknight: GZ is packed close to the area limit... Jdal: perhaps in extreme cases a Url that shows the before / after Chloe: 80m building restriction. was asked about..jp said 30 meters...i'll ask him...*making notes* grover: cos, I can't touch the first 20m of my property, so i know its there... Jetta lewis: what is the point in leaving ugly building Chloe: jdal wants to know if a sign could be made...i think we could put the changes in the description field mgib: agree jdal, like restoring a greek temple, we know what piece is original and which one is a modern copy to finish the wall mgib: Jetta, what is the definition of ugly?? Chloe: agree jdal, like restoring a greek temple, we know what piece is original and which one is a modern copy to finish the wall HenrikG: I forsee area full problems:) grover: we have "Historic Sight" signs around here, that are not obstructive or ugly, but add commentary. I volunteer to make something like that, if we decide on an added marker Dthknight: Chloe why you repeat what mgib said? Jdal: And I do think there needs to be ONE person in charge of documenting the changes Jetta lewis: to me ugly building are walls that are off by shift click, same with roofs Jetta lewis: over use of anything Chloe: grover volunteers to make signs to document changes Indigoflight3: Hi Chloe I just heard about this meeting just now and bopped over ..:o)))) I don't want to interrupt but please... Can you tell me what its about :o)) I am interested :o))) Jetta lewis: ie flowers to the point you cannot move mgib: Hmmmm many historical sites in real would be destroyed with such a concept Chloe: hold on indigo :) grover: "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" Dthknight: !! argh too many PS's!!! Jetta lewis: dthknight i will remove my ps Chloe: i think buildings should be left as is...no changes except to finish them Dows: Bravo, grover Mindman: ? mgib: Again, it's to the appreciation of AWHS staff to understand the aim of the builder, not to correct what we don't like The Paradox: indigo, its an AWHS meeting where the main topic is "restoration" of sites near GZ in AW Prime Indigoflight3: :o) Dthknight: !!!!!!! urgent comment !!!!! can the newcomers (Jetta and Indigo) please turn off their PS, it's annoying having 4 PS's in the vicinity... Jetta lewis: no "corrections"? Dthknight: hard to have a meeting like that Ominous: ! Chloe: mgib said it's the aim to respect the orig builder not to embellsih Jetta lewis: ok,i can respect that Chloe: i agree.. Chloe: who's next? King Tex: mindman ! HenrikG: Alphaworld is a special case.. since it contains so much history and it still got space left for others to build in:) Mindman: okay.. Chloe: Alphaworld is a special case.. since it contains so much history and it still got space left for others to build in:) Mindman: one q? you said something about a comitee to join if your' Schattenjager: I agree with DthKnight... Mindman: err you're interested in the restoration, where do I find out about this? Jdal: repeat question please chloe :) Chloe: anyone interested in applying to the committee can email me chloe@airmail.net Dows: ! Dthknight: added to the signs Chloe Jetta lewis: Please excuse me, i have to leave for personal business. I will visit the web page and get caught up. Chloe: (that quote was a comment from henrikg about the room to build in aw) Chloe: dows? Dthknight: what quote Chloe? Chloe: ok jetta :)) Dthknight: oh that... :) Chloe: Alphaworld is a special case.. since it contains so much history and it still has space left for others to build in:) Chloe: dows? HenrikG: my point is there is room for preserving:) Dows: The places around AWPrime and basically all over AW are places which people know and respect m0e: :-) Dows: Sure, if they're not finished, we should finish them.. Chloe: shh Chloe: The places around AWPrime and basically all over AW are places which people know and respect Dows: But if they're finished and not 100% perfect, why change them? People have learned how to respect the things "wrong" in them.. Jdal: ! Dthknight: Chloe question please... :) Dthknight: oops... ! Dows: After all, we're humans, not gods, and can't make everything perfect. Chloe: But if they're finished and not 100% perfect, why change them? People have learned how to respect the things "wrong" in them.. Chloe: q from dows...answer: mgib: I suggest if a pair of AWHS builder find a complex case about what to do or not they report so several ppl give their opinion Dthknight: oh... Dthknight: mgib follow the rules Schattenjager: ! Dows: I'm finished.. Chloe: i agree...and we will do that in aw prime...but the immediate area of aw gz cof has their hearts set on beautifying...it may be a wee compromise but i dont't think a bad one King Tex: Ominous ! Chloe: nothing will be changed radically Chloe: ... Chloe: like someone left and we would finish it as they would have Chloe: ominous? mgib: we just restore, if COF find it not beautiful enough and wants deep changes it's no more our job Chloe: we just restore, if COF find it not beautiful enough and wants deep changes it's no more our job mgib Chloe: migb said that hehe Chloe: comments? Chloe: ominous you had a question? Jdal: Is there a NG for AWHS yet? grover: who at COF decides? 2/3 majority vote, or is it just JPs opinion? Ominous: There are a lot of really, really junky trasht places around AW GZ (for example, various walls placed here and there, objects floating around, etc..) What do you propose to do about those places? Chloe: there is a forum for the awhs.. Chloe: there is no ng as yet mgib: grover, the last who spoke as usual.:) Chloe: Ominous: There are a lot of really, really junky trasht places around AW GZ (for example, various walls placed here and there, objects floating around, etc..) What do you propose to do about those places? Chloe: those errant rwx's and obvious trash will be dealt with by the PK"s Chloe: i'm sorry i didn't hear grover?? grover: i was asking who at COF decides what's beauty, and whats trash... Chloe: grover: i was asking who at COF decides what's beauty, and whats trash... Chloe: well they have given us the priviledge to beautify...the PK's just deal with vandalsm and trash mgib: So WE decide as far as we are asked for the job Chloe: i'm confident that we can do the job with no changes ...like an archeological restoration mentioned by jdal Dthknight: archeology :) mgib: :) Chloe: mgib: So WE decide as far as we are asked for the job grover: :) Chloe: yes we decide...that's why it's so important to show good judgment and responsibility Dthknight: ? Jdal: well migb actually :) Chloe: dth King Tex: dth ! ? Dthknight: Just a little lost here... what was the big announcement you were going on about to me, Mauz, and Jdal before the meeting? :) Chloe: Dthknight: Just a little lost here... what was the big announcement you were going on about to me, Mauz, and Jdal before the meeting? :) Chloe: the announcement that we were given the ok dth hon ...shhh :))) Dthknight: ah ok... :) The Paradox: sorry, but i have to go now. wish i could stay for the whole meeting but.... bye guys! King Tex: Schatt ! Chloe: the meeting is virtually over P....thanks for coming :))) Chloe: schatt! :)0 Chloe: we will post the minutes.. mgib: thank you for convening Chloe grover: ...gimme another 10 minutes and I'll have the sign Chloe: ok...the meeting is officially over...but i dont' mind answering more comments...and replaying the speech again too if you like :) Dthknight: ? what was Schatt's comment? mgib: minutes in VRT or PST? :) Chloe: heheh mgib Dows: Chloe, is the AWHS still accepting volunteers? Chloe: he didn't comment just showed up lol Mindman: bye all :) Jdal: can we ask CoF to set up a AWHS news group on their server for public consumption? Dthknight: hehe... :) Chloe: Dthknight: Just a little lost here... what was the big announcement you were going on about to me, Mauz, and Jdal before the meeting? :) Chloe: shoot,... Mindman: I need to get back to killing evil things :) Dthknight: yes I said that Chloe... :) Chloe: well i know...evertime i go to contrl c some one speaks lol grover: ...there are enough other dead, dumb NGs on their server- why not ask to put up a rec.internet.activeworlds.awhs NG on usenet? Chloe: grover can you ask cof to put a ng in for us? Chloe: dows what did you ask? Dthknight: ?! do we want COF in on this, remember mgib's points last week? Jdal: sounds good to me... nothing against the DC I just want nested threads for clearity :0 Dows: Is AWHS still accepting volunteers? Dthknight: ! although yes we need a ng... mgib: the question was we didn't want a public discussion place until we had discuss the basic issues between members, now the question is... is it ready to be opened? Chloe: oh yes...dows we are always accepting volunteeers...chloe@airmail.net Dows: OK, cool... I just emailed you using the one on the AWHS homepage. I guess that's the right one Jdal: I think it is mgib CoF has given the nod and its really no secret... Chloe: mgib members to that issue will be sent the addie...members only :) Ominous: I have to be going now.... Thanks for inviting me :-) Dthknight: true... ok I say go ahead someone ask COF for a ng, if not COF then Dataman... Chloe: jdal cof has given us a partial nod.lol...but we still would like to keep our dc a private one :0 Chloe: thanks ominous Dthknight: and keep the DC for private matters... Ominous: bye everyone :-) Jdal: I think it would be a huge mistake NOT to make the AWHS as publicly visable as possible Dthknight: a ng for public stuff, and the DC for private stuff... mgib: yes I agree too jdal, now it should be open to public knowledge and discussion Chloe: we can open a NG for public consumption...the dc should be private Dthknight: agreed Chloe... :) Jdal: that sounds fair Chloe Chloe: ok grover you gonna ask cof for a ng for us? Jdal: its just I don't think you want the populace of AW to think the AWHS is some sort of underground power in AW mgib: right. Dthknight: agreed Jdal grover: umm... me? well, i could *ask* but maybe asking JP over the phone might be a better way ;-) Chloe: Jdal: its just I don't think you want the populace of AW to think the AWHS is some sort of underground power in AW mgib: yes he LOVES the phone.:) Chloe: i agree...it's not an underground thing...just private...we can thank grover for phoning us in a NG :)) *clap* Jdal: Clap clap Chloe: thanks grover :) Dthknight: ? Chloe - this ng, is it going to be public or private? oh yes... Jdal: so Chloe when do you start? Dthknight: just you said 'not underground, just private'... Chloe: public NG Chloe: dth the dc is private for members...the NG is public HenrikG: DC is public too, just just have to search for it:) Dthknight: Got it now, thanx... :) Chloe: shhh henrikg hehehehheh Chloe: ok anyone else?...got 50 tele's :(( mgib: HG, it's private in the sense no one is fool enough to go there with a precise goal.:) Dthknight: poor Chloe... :) Chloe: stratch yawn :)) Jdal: Chloe when are you going to start changing things? HenrikG: well, truely private matters is best handled in email:) Dthknight: changing things? changing what Jdal? Jdal: well restoring or what ever Dows: Changin the buildings? Chloe: true henrik...private matters are for email...the dc is for us to hammer out and discuss our Documents Dthknight: agreed Chloe Jdal: when, where and what Chloe: jdal we aren't sure but really soon maybe in the next couple weeks Dthknight: when - 30 coords out from GZ Dthknight: and where too... :) when is undecided I guess.. Chloe: awgz restoration in a couple of weeks mgib: in DC it's easy to show a picture of a site for comments Dthknight: 30N -> 30S, 30E -> 30W, right Chloe? Dows: Oh yeah, I have a question.. Jdal: I think its really important to grab this initiative as soon as possible.. perhaps start small on outside(near 30m line) Dthknight: mgib - yes but you have to upload it to a server, you don't in a ng... :) Chloe: right now it's 30 meters and out in everydirection...am going to ask JP about the 80 metre thing grover asked about Dows: When we are restoring the buildings, will we all have to use one avatar? Dthknight: Chloe - JP said 30 coords... that's out to 30N, 30S, 30E, 30W... 30m is real REAL small... Dows: Kind of like a "uniform" I guess? mgib: well , we have AWHS web page for storing the picture grover: We could practice on my property if u want- we wouldn't need special priveledges after the PKs did their thing... Dthknight: mgib - well most of us do have web space, but what do we all do, send our pics to Chloe? :) Chloe: lol dows i think you can use any av you like :) Dthknight: poor Chloe is swamped as it is! :) Dows: OK, coolbeans Jdal: well 30m in each direction is 120 sq m thats ALOT of space to cover King Tex: No restoration bunny suits !!! Chloe: well if someone could receive the pics and reduce them to 128x128 i can upload them to my awhs page and hang them in the museum Dthknight: Jdal - 120 square m isn't much space you know... :) Dthknight: JP meant 30 coordinates out from GZ... from 0-30N, 0-30S, 0-30W, and 0-30E... HenrikG: good idea! document it before restoration:) Chloe: magine? omega? what do ya'll think? Dthknight: ...excluding the no-build area around GZ of course... Jdal: well it is if you consider the debate that is sure to go into every sq M Dthknight: ugh Jdal please don't make it difficult... :) Eep isn't gonna be in on this... :) Chloe: mistix? Magine: about what? :> Chloe: anything at all hheheh preferably awhs restoration :)) Dows: I get the feeling we're all anti-eep? m0e: chloe, have them take picts of what is trash, before sending the location to the PK for removal Dthknight: 120m square? it's that small? Dthknight: only 12x12 in h sized walks? Chloe: ok m0e Magine: i'm gonna have to look at the minutes when you put them up, chloe, i missed a lot of the questions, etc..... Jdal: it doesn't sound like alot but really just from my own city which hapens to be 120M square... thats a lot of space to consider Jdal: oops sorry bad math :( 1200M Magine: but i agree with restoration rather than "improvement" concept HenrikG: Btw, you can keep bigger resolution pics.. maybe aw will support 256x256 pics later:) King Tex: I have it all Magine ...will edit the garbage and have them later today Chloe: ok magine hon :)...hey anyone here not on the awhs membership list who wants to join...chloe@airmail.net Chloe: cool henrik :) Chloe: king tex can you email them to me and i'll send them to the awhs list? Magine: ok, great, ktex King Tex: yes Chloe Dthknight: ok Jdal so it's 34.64101615138 x 34.64101615138 h sized walks? :) Chloe: ok...ya'll i'm exhausted and i have another meeting with my prosective roomie in las vegas for the reunion...and the water fall competion and the teachers meeting....wheww Jdal: anyway I think the 30m line is a good start.. Dows: Yes, I must be off also Dows: Thanks for inviting me Dth... seeya alL! Chloe: thanks everyone :))))) Dthknight: hehe Chloe... :) Dthknight: bye Dows, Chloe, anyone else who's leaving... Magine: bye chloe, thanks to you for hosting the meeting Chloe: byeeeee :))) King Tex: Log ending now HenrikG: cya Chloe, and a big Thanks for all the great work&effort:) Jdal: Thanks Chloe Dthknight: Jdal - 30m? How many times do I have to tell you, it's 300!!!